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countersync
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« on: June 26, 2007, 12:37:50 PM »

Hi there,

I'm new to this forum, but I've been tracking for ages using Fast Tracker 2 on my old DOS-based PC.

Basically, I think it's time to modernise! I'd like to be able to use a modern tracker on my laptop in Windows ME (don't laugh), and I've heard loads of names being thrown around, like ModPlug Tracker, Renoise and Skale.

My question is: which of these modern trackers is the best for line-in recording of live instruments and vocals? And then allows you to edit these samples in terms of volume, reverb, etc, like Fast Tracker 2 does? Cos I really don't want to have to keep using a separate program to record these and then switch between the two.

Thanks for your help!
« Last Edit: June 26, 2007, 05:09:13 PM by countersync » Logged
Din
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« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2007, 06:07:32 AM »

First question:  what are your laptop's specs?  Is it PII, PIII, Celeron, Athlon, Duron?  How much RAM do you have and how much can your system take?  You can go to http://www.kahlon.com or http://www.crucial.com and type in your PC's model number to find out RAM type and maximum.

Second question:  can your system support upgrading to a newer version of Windows (or possibly going back to Windows 98 if necessary), even if it's just going to Windows 2000?  Okay, most modern trackers will support Windows 98/ME, but ME is terrible.  I'm not laughing; I've had to deal with ME at work, so I can sympathize.

I've successfully run ModPlug (pre-Open ModPlug) on a PII 300MHz with 96 MB and Windows 98, getting something like 96 voice polyphony, 44.1kHz 16-bit stereo mixing, and cubic spline interpolation--but, that didn't involve any VSTs or DXi (or their effects counterparts...not sure what their exact title is).  That was pure, sample-driven tracking.

However, to make use of a lot of the newer features in trackers, like DSP, synthesis, and routing, you're definitely going to need more machine than that to handle the load.  My PII had serious trouble with playback in MadTracker 2.2, where the recommended processor is a PII 450 with 64 MB of RAM, and MadTracker 2.6 recommends a 1GHz with 256 MB.

That said, if you're just planning on taking sample-only tracking (or mostly samples) from a DOS environment into a Windows environment, ModPlug is probably the least demanding choice.  If you've got a PIII or K7, you might be able to play around with some of the more exotic features in MadTracker, but you'll still be limited in how far you can push things (I'm basing this on specs a typical Windows ME machine might have, i.e. Athlon 750 MHz with 128MB).

I don't know where Open ModPlug is at, but MadTracker 2.6 has a recorder (I haven't had a chance to actually use it yet since I tend to focus on Buzz) and supports ASIO.  Depending on your machine specs though, you might end up with high latency issues. sad

Buzz is another one that I know supports realtime recording via ASIO, but Buzz is VERY system hungry due to the breakdown of synthesizers and effects (versus VSTi's which tend to incorporate basic effects into the synth for a more streamlined performance).

If your laptop can support it, I'd actually end up recommending MadTracker, since it's a child of FT2 (you already know all the effects commands) and supports VST clients without relying too heavily on them.  That way you can start out with what you already know and add to it without having to change software.  Renoise is another good choice for the same reasons.  Both also have sample editors with all the basics like normalize/maximize, cut, paste, resample, etc., and you can apply reverb or other effects by using channel effects or aux sends.
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countersync
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« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2007, 01:45:50 PM »

Hi din, thanks a lot for your reply.

My laptop's quite old - bought in summer 2001, as I recall. It's a Celeron 700 MHz, and I've recently upgraded my RAM to 384 MB. I've also just installed a faster, bigger hard drive (40 GB). I think the maximum RAM it can handle is a whopping 512 MB, so I don't know if it's worth all the hassle of buying new modules and swapping them over.

Regarding upgrading my version of Windows - I'm sure it would be possible if I had a copy of Win 2000 lying around. But to be honest, if there's a simple tracker out there that's not too system resource-hungry and can record samples decently in Win ME, I'd be very happy with it, rather than having to go through the bother of installing a new operating system.

I'm mainly looking to record guitar, bass and vocal samples through my line-in socket (I do rock/metal tracking). I have an amp simulator with loads of effects (a J-Station) that I'm running the guitars through, so I'm not too concerned about having a wide range of VST effects, as I can do everything I need to the input signal before it reaches the computer. That's how I used to work on FT2, and it suited me fine - no fancy effects being applied to the samples themselves, so not much demand on the system.

Thanks very much for your suggestions. I tried OpenModPlug last night, and couldn't see any sample recording options anywhere. I haven't tried standard ModPlug yet, but I'll give it a go. Also, Renoise is on my list of programs to install! I did have a go at Skale last night, but playback seemed to be running down the columns in quite a jerky way, even with no content actually in the columns. OpenModPlug seemed okay speed-wise, though. And I've also downloaded MadTracker, but have yet to install it.

I guess it's time for a bit of experimentation then! I think I'll stay away from Buzz and Psycle, though, since they seem to be the most resource-intensive free programs out there.

Thanks again!
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Din
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2007, 03:57:42 AM »

Well, my whole remark about getting away from ME is more my personal distaste for it than any kind of performance reason, although there might be some trade-offs related to running some newer trackers on older versions of Windows.

I don't know that ModPlug (pre-open source, that is) would have much, if anything, to offer you that Open ModPlug won't, especially recording from a line input.  That'll likely appear later on as the development community sees the need.  I love open source.  grin

I also do live guitar recording for my music (I'm currently trying to get my money's worth out of Sonar...I should have a couple of tunes to share soon cheesy).  I haven't done any tracking with my guitar samples yet, but I plan to start cutting them up into more manageable pieces when I feel a bit more energetic.  One of my favorite mods is a tune by Skaven for Unreal Tournament ( http://modarchive.org/download.php/R/razor-ub.it ), and it makes excellent use of guitar samples (wow...).

I would have to agree with you on your memory situation, especially if its PC100/133 (and it probably is).  The cost makes upgrading more of an investment than the return warrants, although it definitely would be an improvement.  It just wouldn't be enough for the money, unless you can find a killer deal online somewhere.

Sounds like you're enjoying the experimentation.  If necessary, try them all.  You can't go wrong looking.
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Blaster
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« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2007, 09:15:37 PM »

I don't think Renoise supports Win ME anymore. Of course you're free to try them all and see which one suits your needs.
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